රහතෙකු වන නිවැරදි මග 1 ( සිරි සමන්තභද්‍ර මහා ස්වාමින් වහන්සේ )

Killing Gently.

Show a gentle and humane way of snuffing the life out of another
Convince, it will be as easy and as painless as
Breathing fresh air into one’s own lungs.

Open pens’ gates and see where they would run
In one’s own eye.

Would they still go to the dreaded spot?
Or would they run for their lives?

Convince me and show me the humane way
Or I prefer to stay a veggie forever.

Shashi,

If you have a chance to meet the thero and ask questions. Please ask whether he is willing to handover his temple to you or any one else on demand. Then please observe his reactions. If he says no or shows he is annoyed or angry by this question he is not arahat becaz arahat people have eradicated attachments to this world and they do not generate any karma which fuels the cycle

කස් ශශි ට හොඳවයින් කුණු හරුප ටිකක් අස්සවන්න ද හදන්නේ ?  නිකං හරුප නෙවි රහත් හරුප​.

මම දවසක් ඔතන බණ අහන්න යන්න ගියා 8.15 ට විනාඩියක් පරක්කු උනා කියල යන්න දුන්නෙ නෑ.ගේට්ටුව වහනව​. නීතිය එහෙමලු.

කෙසේ උනත් මේ හිමියන් ගේ බණ වල යම් සත්‍ය යැයි  පෙනෙන දෙයක් ඇත​. ලාංකික බුදු දහමේ කරන සමහර නොගැලපෙන දේ එතුමන් විවේචනය කරයි. ඒ නිසා බණ අහන විට යම් අවබෝධයක් හා උනන් දුවක් ඇතිවේ.

කීම එසේ වූ නමුත්  ක්‍රියාව උඩු යටි කුරු බවක් හැඟේ.

වෙලාව ප්‍රමාද වු විට බණ අහන්න එන එක තහනම් කිරීම​. තමන් ගේ උපන් දින පාටියට තොග පිටින් කුකුලු, කකුලු, ඌරු මස් කලින් ඕඩර් කිරීම​. මේ ඕඩරේ යන විට මේ බොහො සතුන් ඉන්න ඇත්තේ පණ පිටින් බව සමාජ ජාලවල තර්කයක් ගියා. විශේෂයෙන් ම කකුලුවන්.

බුදු හිමියනුත් මස් පිලි ගෙන වැළඳූ බව සූත්‍ර වල ස්ථාන පෙන්වමින් පිටි දූවෙ හිමිගේ ශ්‍රාවක කොටස් තම ගුරු ගේ ක්‍රියාව සාධාරණය කරන්නට තැත් කරන බව පසු ගිය කාලෙ පෙනුන​.
උපන් දින පාටියේ කුකුල්, කකුළු, ඌරු ආදීන් ගේ මාංශ කලින් ඇනවුම් කර පිලියෙල කිරීම හා බුදු හිමියන් හෝ  යම් ස්වාමීන් වහන් සේ නමක් පිඬු සිඟා වඩින විට අහරක් ලෙස කවරකු හෝ පිලිගන් වන ලද ද්‍රව්‍ය වල මාංශ තිබීම සමාන වන්නේ නැත​.

මේ  වහන්සේගේ උපන් දින පාටිය සැලසුම් කරන විට​   මහා උපාසිකාවන් විසින් අවශ්‍ය කුකුල් හා කකුළුවන් කිලෝ ගාන ගණන් හදා බලන දිනයේ ද ඒ සතුන් සිටියේ පණ පිටින් නොවේ ද​? සති 2 කට පෙර අදාල දිනට අවශ්‍ය සතුන් ගණන කල් තියා දැනුම් දෙන මොහොතේ  පවා පණ පිටින් විය යුතුය​.  අදාල හිමියන් ගේ බර්ත් ඩේ එකට මරන සතුන් ගාන මස් සැපයුම් කරු නොදැන සිටි යාද​?

පිසින ලද මස් අහඹු ලෙස ගෙන අහරක් වශයෙන් පූජා කළ විට ( එවිට එය භෞතික ද්‍රව්‍යයක් පමණි) එහි තත්ත්වයම ද මේ ලෙස කලින් ඇනවුම් කර ලබා ගන්නා සතුන් ගේ මාංශ වල ඇත්තේ ?
අපේ රහතුන් වහන්සේගේ ඍද්ධිමත් බුද්ධියට මෙය පෙනුනේ නැද්ද​?

තමන් ගේ පාටියට  තව ටික දිනකින් මරන සතුන් දිවි ගෙවන අන්දම එතුමෝ දිවැසින් නොදුටු වෝ ද​?

Yellow then you may like the below also
http://forum.lankaninvestor.com/t1010p420-note-to-members-of-investor-sentiment-forum#32239

yellow knife wrote:ok... nice to see we discuss something out of stocks and politics...

A) No need Sashi. He answered himself , I heard myself.

To me personally the meat matter is secondary right now ( people have discussed a lot about it so I won't comment)


B) There is a saying "Kiyanna Kese Kiwwath Assannya Sihibudhiyen asiya uthuya".
( no matter what the person who talk says, it is the duty of the person listening to grasp only after thought.)

Hope you listened to the very last sentence thero said ( before program quitted) on Neth FM.




C) I extract and AGAIN highlight what I said in my first post ( before this thread exploded )

These questions/observations are just a small guideline to compare with the answers Thero gave ( he gave some
answers ) so we can think for ourselves . A hallmark of buddhism is to critically think for ourselves.


1) He is learned. He is well read. He knows stuff. I am sure he has experimented some things too.

2) But has he overlearned or has he taken his learning to twist and add his own extremist flavor ?

3) Has he attained Rahath or any of the "state" to that matter. I saw in newspaper he claimed he has attained
( to be clarified) Now a question will arise, does his behavior style display anyone who has attained a state of calmness and wisdom of person who has attained a state.

4) If someone has attained a state or has great wisdom , why does he want this much attention in different ways?

Example : He says one time "kiyala banum assaganna" ( get your self scolded).

okay maybe he is giving advice to others.
But why is he is trying to do that himself still if he has attained a state.

Take the a) the photo issue b) the recent Dane issue, as example.

I presume if he was okay to consume meat and if the upasaka upasikawo is presenting he can do it
in quiteness. But there was so much publicity on it. Why is so am not sure?


5) "Araya margayata pathkala uthumek widawata path karanna bae" .

Well I agree he has great oratory skills to argue and convince so at his monestray everyone who comes , come
willingly so he can convince.

6) He also says don't expect and just let thing happen. ( bus station example) . Do not schedule.

But to me he has expected and scheduled/planned certain events. ( Like the Dane and he was expecting people will
scold him ) He was prepared to justify the eating of meat by showing Buddha never said not to ( except 10 kinds of meat) . This exemplifies my point of number 5) also.


7) He often states words "little pissu" & "amuthu". He also says what he says is not written anywhere.
Okay. But ... there is big but there itself ( think deep)

I admit , being unorthodox is no reason to sideline anyone or dismiss what he says. I am myself very unorthodox and outspoken. So I understand the priest maybe of same character . There is certainly some truth in some of the things he states. But is it a mixture?




D)

Let me ask You one question ( Sashi) You don't have to answer me if you don't want to.

Do you see in him the signs or think he has attained Arahath?

If yes, then I am sure he will be able to convince you further. So I will stop.
If No, then the premise to believe his ways and what he says is broken. So I will stop.



E) I know that saying and convincing are 2 different things.

What my stand on this :
I take certain things he says as truth (as it make sense specially on a social context) and I will discard the rest.
Btw, what I just said , take what makes sense and discard the rest )also falls under a strong premise of Buddhism

sashimaal wrote:Other than the controversial topic of eating meat, i can answer any question you have on what was discussed in the Neth FM discussion.

slstock wrote:Yes questions were asked  and  answers were given.
 
The very last sentence he said in  the  program probably is more controversial than the meat eating  ( along with many other things )
 

Please read the 9th page of this magazine to know the real view of the Buddhism on eating meat

http://www.youblisher.com/p/498819-/

slstock wrote:Yellow then you may like the below also
http://forum.lankaninvestor.com/t1010p420-note-to-members-of-investor-sentiment-forum#32239

yellow knife wrote:ok... nice to see we discuss something out of stocks and politics...

Wow.... really appreciate sir....

This forum is full of nice guys.. and we are proud of you for allowing these nice people to discuss things nicely...

Unlike about stocks and politics , I am not a learned or experienced in the subject matter being discussed...

I listened to this monk and I appreciate him for one strong reason...

Many enter university as a monk and graduate as a layman.. But Vidyawedi pitiduwe thero was quite opposite of it..

Then I had another problem...when Brigadier Ananda Weerasinha became a monk he was not addressed as Brigadier Ananda thero... So why Pitiduwa Thero is using Vidaywedi.... So I knew he is good at Marketing than Buddhism..

In his metamorphosis he now appear as Samantha Badra...

However just because of his outer appearance or market orientation it does not nulify what he says..

There is a youtube clip of this monk " wathupitiwala desanaya" There the monk says a person who has understood truth is never aging... Then he says "look at me..i have not become old in appearance... Have you ever seen a picture of Buddha in old age?"

That made me understood that his limited thinking on a vast subject matter...

When I visited   Ariyadewa Wilegoda theros temple in Amablangoda there is a picture of Lord Buddha in old age...a ruining cart in the background... Ananda thero in the back ground bringing water... Ariyadewa Wilegoda thero said that many artists dont like to draw Lord Buddha in old age... But when you grow old you are like a ruined cart...

( This temple consist a collection of wooden statues of Buddha as Ambalangoda is famous for wood carvings... its near Amablangoda darmashoka and ask  as mahacharya hamudurwange pansala...A nice place to visit)

Anyway regarding eating meat I dont find a problem with this monk and I agree with Shashi in that regard...

However I have learned a lot from this fruitful discussion and thanks  shashi for binging this thread and all those contributed...

I will not comment anymore on this matter but will read all as I have less knowledge in this regard...

Answers to below (as i understand) :

C.

1. Yes

2. Maybe, but no real proof about the latter part of the question

3. Once i asked a separate person who does Pranic healing about the Thero and to see whether He has attained any special level when it comes to Chakra (Chakra awadi kireema). That is not directly related to Maarga pala but will be some indication as to whether He is a fake or not. That person after checking confirmed that Pitiduwe Thero has indeed got to a certain special level when it comes to Chakra beyond a normal person. Any other person who has access to Pranic healing Teachers can also check whether what i am saying is correct. Just for information, Dalai Lama's level of Chakra measurement he gave was far above Pitiduwe Thero.

I do not know how to understand such a person (an Arahath). However, upto now no other person could also prove that he has not either (not that it means it is therefore correct). I have found that his teachings are right - but needs to understand He says certain things for certain people and different things to some other people based on their level of spiritual maturity (ex: positive thinking related matters will not be said in the same way for people with a higher level of understanding/for mentally strong ppl - as it does fool one's own mind).


4. Attention matter - i also have that same doubt. I have heard this question asked from him as well - even Neth FM people asked it. My thoughts are similar.


5. Because they have let go "Mamathwaya"

6. That needs lengthy discussion and is true. However all details were not discussed in that clip. That is linked to living in the present. Planning is one thing, expecting it to happen the way we planned is another. I will put a video on that when i find. Christianity also says the same thing.

7. If we "assume" that he has attained Arahath pala, still Vasana-guna will be there (which have come with his Samsara). So certain words and behavior could still remain even at his higher state. There are certain Rahath who have used "bad language" according to the scriptures..but their "intention" is not as what we think or how lays such as us would say/do.


D.
If he came to us...looking at the ground walking slowly and quietly without slippers even ...and sat on a small chair or on floor and said things very gently and mildly looking at the floor and kept very quiet...

MOST WOULD HAVE SAID "HE DEFINITELY HAS ATTAINED SOME SORT OF SPIRITUAL LEVEL ! "



Anyway, as i said, I do not know whether he has attained Sovan even. I do not know how to check that. I have heard his teachings. When i have questions on them i write down and ask when i meet. I have not come across a better teacher of Buddhism - and i have listened to a lot.

Most importantly, i don't blindly believe him or his teachings (Kalama Suthra clearly says - Ma Samano no garu thi )

slstock wrote:

1) He is learned. He is well read. He knows stuff. I am sure he has experimented some things too.

2) But has he overlearned or has he taken his learning to twist and add his own extremist flavor ?

3) Has he attained Rahath or any of the "state" to that matter. I saw in newspaper he claimed he has attained
( to be clarified) Now a question will arise, does his behavior style display anyone who has attained a state of calmness and wisdom  of person who has attained a state.

4) If someone has attained a state or has great wisdom , why does he want this much attention in different ways?

Example : He says one time "kiyala banum assaganna" ( get your self scolded).

okay maybe he is giving advice to others.
But why is he is trying to do that himself still if he has attained a state.

Take the a) the photo issue b) the recent Dane issue, as example.

I presume if he was okay to consume meat and if the upasaka upasikawo is presenting he can do it
in quiteness. But there was so much publicity on it. Why is so am not sure?


5) "Araya margayata pathkala uthumek widawata path karanna bae" .

Well I agree he has great oratory skills to argue and convince so at his monestray everyone who comes , come
willingly so he can convince.

6) He also says don't expect and just let thing happen. ( bus station example) . Do not schedule.

But to me he has expected and scheduled/planned certain events. ( Like the Dane and he was expecting people will
scold him ) He was prepared to justify the eating of meat by showing Buddha never said not to ( except 10 kinds of meat) . This exemplifies my point of number 5) also.


7) He often states words "little pissu" & "amuthu". He also says what he says is not written anywhere.
Okay. But ... there is big but there itself ( think deep)

I admit , being unorthodox is no reason to sideline anyone or dismiss what he says. I am myself very unorthodox and outspoken. So I understand the priest maybe of same character . There is certainly some truth in some of the things he states. But is it a mixture?




D)
   
Let me ask You one question ( Sashi)  You don't have to answer me if you don't want to.

Do you see in him the signs or think he has attained Arahath?

If yes, then I am sure he will be able to convince you further.  So I will stop.  
If No, then the premise to believe  his ways  and what he says is broken.   So I will stop.



E)  I know that   saying   and convincing   are 2 different things.

  What my stand  on this :
  I take certain things he says as truth (as it make sense specially on a  social context)  and  I will discard the rest.
  Btw, what I  just said  , take what makes sense and discard the rest )also  falls under a strong premise of  Buddhism

sashimaal wrote:Other than the controversial topic of eating meat, i can answer any question you have on what was discussed in the Neth FM discussion.

slstock wrote:Yes questions were asked  and  answers were given.
 
The very last sentence he said in  the  program probably is more controversial than the meat eating  ( along with many other things )
 

මා නැවතත් මේ සටහන කරමි
තමන්ගේ හිතට එකගව හිතල කතා කරන්න,ඔබට තේරේවි ඔබ ඉන්න තැන මේ අදහස තුල.....


පොඩි ප්‍රශ්න කිහිපයක් ?

ඔබ කඩේට ගිහින් මස් ඉල්ලනවා,ඒ කඩේ මස් නැ,
මේ වගේ ගොඩක් දෙනෙක් ඒ කඩෙන් මස් ඉල්ලනවා,එත් එතන නැ,
කඩේ මුදලාලි කල්පනා කරනවා,කුකුලන්,උරන්,ගවයන් ටිකක් ගේන්න.
ඔන්න අයෙත් මිනිස්සු මස් ඉල්ලද්දී එයට කැමති මසක් දෙන්න කඩේ මුදලාලි ලග සත්තු ඉන්නවා.
කුකුල් මස් ඉල්ලුවම කුකුළා මරනවා,හරකා ඉල්ලුවම හරකා මරනවා,උරා ඉල්ලුවම උරා මරනවා,
ඉල්ලුවේ කිලෝවයි,නමුත් කිලෝ දෙකක් තියෙන නිසා,ඉතුරු කිලෝව ශීතකරණයේ දානවා..ඔන්න දැන් වැඩේ යනවා,ඉල්ලුමට අනුව සැපයුම.මස් කන්න තියෙන ආසාවට,ආසාව අවශ්‍යතාවය වෙනවා(අසාවන් අඩු කරන්න කියල බුද්ධාගමේ තියෙනවා නේද?සීලය-ප්‍රජ්ජ්නාවෙන් සිත කය වචනය සංවර කිරීම),ඔන්න අවස්‍යතවයට අනුව ඉල්ලුම් කරනවා,ඔන්න ඉතින් මුදලාලි බඩු දෙනවා...

දැන් මට කියන්න බලන්න ඉල්ලුමක් නැත්තම අර සත්තු ටික මැරෙනවද?
කාටවත් හිරිහැරයක් කරදරයක් නැතුව ජිවත් වෙන්න ඉගැන්නුවේ මගේ දෙමුපියෝ..

පොඩ්ඩක් පිහියක් බෙල්ලට තියල කපාගෙන බලන්න,කොච්චර නම් සනීපද කියලා,
අනේ මොහොතකටවත් හිතුවද අර සතාට කොච්චර අමාරුද කියලා..

ඔබ මස් නොඉල්ලුවනම් උව මරනවද,එසේම ඔබ සියලු දෙනාම මස් නොඉල්ලුව නම් එටන ඉල්ලුමක් නැ,ඉල්ලුමක් නැති තැන සැපයුමක් නැ.

පසුව ලියමි.
එක් අයෙක් හරි ඉන්නවා නම් තමන්ට මස් කන්න ඕන නිසා,තමන් විසින්ම සත්ව මරල ගෙදර උයලා කන කෙනෙක් මම ඔහු ගැන ආඩම්බර වෙමි,මොකද තමන්ගේ ආසාවට ඒ සතා මැරීමේ පව ටව කෙනෙක් පිට නොතමු හෙයිනි,බළලුන් ලවා කොස් අට බාවන අයට වඩා කොන්ද ඍජු අය ඇතයි මා සිතමි.

මා ගැන පෞද්ගලිකව දන්නා අය මේ ෆෝරමය තුල සිටිනවා,මගේ දිවිපෙවෙත සහ කෑම බිම ගැන ඔවුන් හොදින් දන්නවා.සැපයුම අති මහත් උවත් මා එසේ නොගන්නේ ඒ ගැන ආසාවක් නැති කමත්,ඉල්ලුම වැඩි කිරීමට අකමැති නිසා බවත් පැහැදිලි සිතින් එක්සිත්ව,එක්සත්ව ප්‍රකාශ කරමි.

සිංහල භාෂාවෙන්(අකුරු සිංහල උනත් ඉංග්‍රීසි අකුරු උනාට කම් නැත) අදහස් ප්‍රකාශ කරන ලෙස කාරුණිකව දන්වමි.

ඔබට තෙරුවන් සරණයි..

මේ සම්බන්ධව මා සෙවූ නමුත් මට මේ ගැන සොයා ගැනීමට නොහැකි විය,කරුණාකර පිටකයේ පිටු අංකය සදහන් කරන්න.

sashimaal wrote:

මා මේ සදහන් කරන දේ ගැනත් මොහොතක් හිතන්න,
වරදක් ඇත්නම් පහදන්න...සමහර විට මෙය අන්තගාමී යැයි ඔබට සිතේ,එත් මොහොතක් සිතන්න.

ඔබ බෞද්ධ කෙනෙකු වශයෙන් පුනුරුප්පත්තිය විස්වාස කරනවා ඇතියි මා අපේක්ෂා කරමි.
ඔබගේ පෙර භාවයේ සොහොයුරා මේ භාවයේ ඔයේම පුතා විය හැක,
ඔබගේ මව , ඔබගේ මේ භාවයේ මවද විය හැක,
අපි හැමෝම එදා මේද තුර එකෙනිකට නැ කම් කියන අයසේ මට දැනේ.

ඉතින් ඔබේ පෙර බවයේ,ඔබේ මව,පියා,බිරිද,දුව දරුවන් මේ බවයේ ඔබට මුණ ගැසීමට බොහෝසෙයින් පිළිවන,අපි එය නොදන්නේ පෙර බවය ගැන අපට නොපෙනෙන නොදෙනෙන නිසා බව අවදාරණය කරමි.

ඔබ අද ආහාරයට ගන්න ගවයා පෙර බවයේ ඔබේම යහළුවා,සොයුරිය,මව පියා විය හැක..

ඔබ රස කර කර කන මස් කැබැල්ල ඇත්තටම කාගේ විය හැකිදැයි ඔබ දන්නේ නම් ඔබ නොකන බව මා හොදින් දනී,නමුත් පෙර විසු කද පිළිබද නොදනිම අපේ ප්‍රජ්ජාවේ ප්‍රශ්නයක් මිස අන් කවරක් වත් නොවේ..

ඔබ ඔබේ මවගේ මස් අනුබව කරන බව ඔබට සිතේ ද?ඔබ ඔබගේ පුතනුවන්ගේ මස් අනුබව කරන බව ඔබට සිතේද,

අමතක කරන්න එපා අපිට පුනුරුප්පත්තියක් තියෙනවා.

මා වැඩි දුර මේ ගැන කතා කිරීමට නොයමි,මගේ වැයම මා දන්නා ,අත්දුටු,මට දැනෙන හැගෙන දේ ඔබට පැවසීමි,මගේ දේශයේ මිනිසුන්ට මෙන්ම සතුන්ටද පොඩි හෝ අයිතිවාසිකමක් දීමට මා අපකපවෙමි.

අපි 20-20000HZ පරාසය තුල ලොව දකින මිනිසුන් බව අපි හැමෝම පිළිගත යුතුය.
ඉන් එහා හෝ මෙහා අප නොබලන්නේ අපට නොහැකි නිසා බව දන්න්වමි,එහෙත් ඉන් එහා මෙහා ඇති ලෝකයද අපට දැනුවත්ව හෝ නොදැනුවත්ව ප්‍රයෝජන වෙන අවස්ථා අපමණ බව මා අත්දැකීමෙන් දනී.

Meat issue is one thing and should not go overboard linking to religion but is a matter to be discussed.

As we know, Hitler was also a vegetarian.

sashimaal wrote:Meat issue is one thing and should not go overboard linking to religion but is a matter to be discussed.

As we know, Hitler was also a vegetarian.

+ for u for ur intention to have a change to discuss this..
Aha..Me Myself and Kithsiri De Silva also..
i think i wil not post more regarding this matter



but i love to tell animals also have their right even though people dont know it

Sashi, what is the justification you can give for this Monk delivering his sermon on a Royal chair whereas Lord Buddha never used luxuries things to reach the hearts and minds of millions of flowers.
There had been great Monks in the history. There are still Thousands.
My opinion, he does not teach real Buddhism. Instead he uses what is surrounding the society to justify his thinking.

What if Lord Buddha sat on Manik Putuwa ( chair made out of gem) to make peace rival parties fighting over the same chair and delivering sermon?

Wasteof time I warmly welcome you for this discussion..

Waste of Time:

Pls listen to the second video that was put by me on this thread.
You will get the answer.

Hint: Next Buddha will live in a Palace made of diamonds and attain Buddha-hood inside that Palace !

චූටි පුතා,

මේ මස් හෝ ආහාර පිලිබඳ මගේ මතයක්.

බුදුදහමේ අනුව සියලු වස්තූන් ආපෝ, තේජෝ, වායෝ, පඨවි ලෙස නිමැවී ඇති බවත් අනිත්‍යය යනු ඒ වස්තූන් ඒ එකිනෙක ස්වභාව අතර චංචල වීම බවත් කියැවේ.

මේ පදාර්ථයේ අවස්ථා 4 ය​. බුදුන් ට පෙර හින් දු දහමේ ආකාශ් ලෙස තව භූතයෙක් ගැන ඉගැන් වේ. (පංච මහා භූත​) නමුත් ආකාශය (ස්පේස්) පදාර්ථයක් නොවන බැවි බුදුහිමියන් එය ඉවත් කළ සේක​.

මේ මට තේරෙන හැටි:
ආහාරයක් ලෙස බත් හෝ මස් පිලියෙල කළ පසු තවදුරටත් ඒවා ජීවී නොවේ. සතා මරන මොහොතේ සියලු පාප හෝ බැඳීම් සිදුවන අතර ඉන් පසු ඒවා "එම සතා ට අයත් මස් " නොවේ. සතෙක් නැත​. ඇත්තේ පදාර්ථයක් පමනි. ඒවා අනිත් සියලු දේ මෙන්ම අනිත්‍ය වස්තූන් පමණකි.
නමුත් ඒවා සොරකම් කළ හෝ බලෙන් ගත් මස් වේ.

සතාගේ මස් ලෙසම ගන්න කියා දුන්නා නම් මූලික හරයන් ට​, මුල් ඉගැන්වීම වලට පටහැනි වෙන්න තිබුන​.
ඒ නිසා පෙර ඥාතියෙකුගේ මස් විය හැකිය යන්න මසින් වැලකී තම චිත්ත සැනසීම සඳහා යොදා ගත හැකි වූවත් ගැඹුරු බුදු දහමේ දී එසේ ගැනීම හරයක් නැති දෙයක් වෙයි.

මස් කෑම එකහෙලා තහනම් නොකිරීමට හේතුවද මෙ යයැයි සිතමි.

chinwi wrote:චූටි පුතා,

මේ මස් හෝ ආහාර පිලිබඳ මගේ මතයක්.

බුදුදහමේ අනුව සියලු වස්තූන් ආපෝ, තේජෝ, වායෝ, පඨවි ලෙස නිමැවී ඇති බවත් අනිත්‍යය යනු ඒ වස්තූන් ඒ එකිනෙක ස්වභාව අතර චංචල වීම බවත් කියැවේ.

මේ පදාර්ථයේ අවස්ථා 4 ය​. බුදුන් ට පෙර හින් දු දහමේ ආකාශ් ලෙස තව භූතයෙක් ගැන ඉගැන් වේ. (පංච මහා භූත​) නමුත් ආකාශය (ස්පේස්) පදාර්ථයක් නොවන බැවි බුදුහිමියන් එය ඉවත් කළ සේක​.

මේ මට තේරෙන හැටි:
ආහාරයක් ලෙස බත් හෝ මස් පිලියෙල කළ පසු තවදුරටත් ඒවා ජීවී නොවේ. සතා මරන මොහොතේ සියලු පාප හෝ බැඳීම් සිදුවන අතර ඉන් පසු ඒවා "එම සතා ට අයත් මස් " නොවේ.  සතෙක් නැත​. ඇත්තේ පදාර්ථයක් පමනි. ඒවා අනිත් සියලු දේ මෙන්ම අනිත්‍ය වස්තූන් පමණකි.
නමුත් ඒවා සොරකම් කළ හෝ බලෙන් ගත් මස් වේ.

සතාගේ මස් ලෙසම ගන්න කියා දුන්නා නම් මූලික හරයන් ට​, මුල් ඉගැන්වීම වලට පටහැනි වෙන්න තිබුන​.  
ඒ නිසා පෙර ඥාතියෙකුගේ මස් විය හැකිය යන්න  මසින් වැලකී තම චිත්ත සැනසීම සඳහා යොදා ගත හැකි වූවත් ගැඹුරු බුදු දහමේ දී එසේ ගැනීම හරයක් නැති දෙයක් වෙයි.

මස් කෑම එකහෙලා තහනම් නොකිරීමට හේතුවද මෙ යයැයි සිතමි.

Good one Chinwi..
Different Aspect..

chinwi wrote:චූටි පුතා,

මේ මස් හෝ ආහාර පිලිබඳ මගේ මතයක්.

බුදුදහමේ අනුව සියලු වස්තූන් ආපෝ, තේජෝ, වායෝ, පඨවි ලෙස නිමැවී ඇති බවත් අනිත්‍යය යනු ඒ වස්තූන් ඒ එකිනෙක ස්වභාව අතර චංචල වීම බවත් කියැවේ.

මේ පදාර්ථයේ අවස්ථා 4 ය​. බුදුන් ට පෙර හින් දු දහමේ ආකාශ් ලෙස තව භූතයෙක් ගැන ඉගැන් වේ. (පංච මහා භූත​) නමුත් ආකාශය (ස්පේස්) පදාර්ථයක් නොවන බැවි බුදුහිමියන් එය ඉවත් කළ සේක​.

මේ මට තේරෙන හැටි:
ආහාරයක් ලෙස බත් හෝ මස් පිලියෙල කළ පසු තවදුරටත් ඒවා ජීවී නොවේ. සතා මරන මොහොතේ සියලු පාප හෝ බැඳීම් සිදුවන අතර ඉන් පසු ඒවා "එම සතා ට අයත් මස් " නොවේ.  සතෙක් නැත​. ඇත්තේ පදාර්ථයක් පමනි. ඒවා අනිත් සියලු දේ මෙන්ම අනිත්‍ය වස්තූන් පමණකි.
නමුත් ඒවා සොරකම් කළ හෝ බලෙන් ගත් මස් වේ.

සතාගේ මස් ලෙසම ගන්න කියා දුන්නා නම් මූලික හරයන් ට​, මුල් ඉගැන්වීම වලට පටහැනි වෙන්න තිබුන​.  
ඒ නිසා පෙර ඥාතියෙකුගේ මස් විය හැකිය යන්න  මසින් වැලකී තම චිත්ත සැනසීම සඳහා යොදා ගත හැකි වූවත් ගැඹුරු බුදු දහමේ දී එසේ ගැනීම හරයක් නැති දෙයක් වෙයි.

මස් කෑම එකහෙලා තහනම් නොකිරීමට හේතුවද මෙ යයැයි සිතමි.

Chinvi, you are absolutely correct but eating meat creates demand for meat and encourages killing more animals for meat. Indirect pursuation is there.

In 1987, I was in USA. Americans whome I met asked me why I eat meat being a Buddhist. I felt guilty, because I was encouraging killing indirectly by eating meat. Even though I was aware of the explanation you gave here, I did not bother to explain it to them that way, as I too had already become a party to that sin indirectly.

Any way, it is a debatable question whether the meat we buy from the market is "Thricotika Parishudda Mansa" or not. ?Is it OK if we eat meat offered to us without demand at a party. Then again I see there is an in-direct encouragement to offer meat at parties if you just eat what is offered. Therefore, I finally decided to become a vegitarian.

Ethical Trader wrote:

chinwi wrote:චූටි පුතා,

මේ මස් හෝ ආහාර පිලිබඳ මගේ මතයක්.

බුදුදහමේ අනුව සියලු වස්තූන් ආපෝ, තේජෝ, වායෝ, පඨවි ලෙස නිමැවී ඇති බවත් අනිත්‍යය යනු ඒ වස්තූන් ඒ එකිනෙක ස්වභාව අතර චංචල වීම බවත් කියැවේ.

මේ පදාර්ථයේ අවස්ථා 4 ය​. බුදුන් ට පෙර හින් දු දහමේ ආකාශ් ලෙස තව භූතයෙක් ගැන ඉගැන් වේ. (පංච මහා භූත​) නමුත් ආකාශය (ස්පේස්) පදාර්ථයක් නොවන බැවි බුදුහිමියන් එය ඉවත් කළ සේක​.

මේ මට තේරෙන හැටි:
ආහාරයක් ලෙස බත් හෝ මස් පිලියෙල කළ පසු තවදුරටත් ඒවා ජීවී නොවේ. සතා මරන මොහොතේ සියලු පාප හෝ බැඳීම් සිදුවන අතර ඉන් පසු ඒවා "එම සතා ට අයත් මස් " නොවේ.  සතෙක් නැත​. ඇත්තේ පදාර්ථයක් පමනි. ඒවා අනිත් සියලු දේ මෙන්ම අනිත්‍ය වස්තූන් පමණකි.
නමුත් ඒවා සොරකම් කළ හෝ බලෙන් ගත් මස් වේ.

සතාගේ මස් ලෙසම ගන්න කියා දුන්නා නම් මූලික හරයන් ට​, මුල් ඉගැන්වීම වලට පටහැනි වෙන්න තිබුන​.  
ඒ නිසා පෙර ඥාතියෙකුගේ මස් විය හැකිය යන්න  මසින් වැලකී තම චිත්ත සැනසීම සඳහා යොදා ගත හැකි වූවත් ගැඹුරු බුදු දහමේ දී එසේ ගැනීම හරයක් නැති දෙයක් වෙයි.

මස් කෑම එකහෙලා තහනම් නොකිරීමට හේතුවද මෙ යයැයි සිතමි.

Chinvi, you are absolutely correct but eating meat creates demand for meat and encourages killing more animals for meat. Indirect pursuation is there.

In 1987, I was in USA. Americans whome I met asked me why I eat meat being a Buddhist. I felt guilty, because I was encouraging killing indirectly by eating meat.  Even though I was aware of the explanation you gave here, I did not bother to explain it to them that way, as I too had already become a party to that sin indirectly.

Any way, it is a debatable question whether the meat we buy from the market is "Thricotika Parishudda Mansa" or not. ?Is it OK if we eat meat offered to us without demand at a party. Then again I see there is an in-direct encouragement to offer meat at parties if you just eat what is offered. Therefore, I finally decided to become a vegitarian.

Great ET..

1) I can argue on 2) 6) 7) D) in detail further.

But as he has reached you and convinced you, I will stop on those.

But I will make some further notes to make light on the controversial matters.



2)

On 4) you should ask him directly. He likes questions. He will give you an answer for sure.

Also do what Kass said if you wish as that is quite a test . There are other extreme tests one can do and lets
not think about it even.




3)

I do not know how to tell Arahath either. But what I do know is such a person needs to be very different ( exceptional) in behaviour, preaching , mentality , spirituality and social skills for me to render my attention
That is my expectation.

On Prathiharaya paama, the answer he gave on Neth FM cannot be contested or dis proven. Yes.
But to me it is not convincing enough.
Even for Catholics to attain saint hood , there is the concept of some miracle.
Leaving out miracle or Rdhi bala, except for his good understanding/reading of buddhist scriptures and his explanations,
I like to see other differences from him from regular person behaviour to convince me further he is the special
"envoy" he claims he is .

I state once again the last sentence he said on Neth FM, is even more controversial . Am not sure he should have said it if there is no Mamathwaya ( now you can argue he did not have thoughts in such though his words said so . But only he knows that and we should not go into a circular discussion )


Think of it this way.

Through online forums, I could have reached out to people in 2 ways.

i) Wait patiently for someone to ask me a question and only answer that or comment on non controversial posts.
I know that process will make less people who dislike me ( if any). I know the bolder we are the likely hood of upsetting
someone or making people dislike us becomes more.
People only throw stones at the Mango tree with ripe fruit right. ( unless they are mad)


ii) be more aggressive to post voluntarily often, convey/enforce ideas , generate discussion, tell people to control emotions, do regular updates, intercept discussions when going out of track ( according to accept social norm or personal norms ) to keep law and order etc etc etc

I have chosen number ii) .
Why?
Because I have goal. I am proactive and Type A. I wanted to be active , liven things up at the forum, do some duty from Admin perspective, stand up to my norms of justice , infuse balance to discussions , generate enthusiasm for younger people, inculcate thoughts outside stocks/money etc etc etc

I did such as I had bigger goals and I am simply Gihi ( no marga pala) . Ofcourse, I also admit there is an element of Mamathwaya in some things I state to give a more personal touch and simply because I am Gihi with weaknesses.

Now the question is , what is the excepted norm for Marga pala Labi person? Should he/she not be different to me.

The issue with the Thero's "state" he claims is : The behaviour pattern of the states is not defined or written anywhere clearly ( to my knowledge). So Thero can argue taking points and examples for his side and we can argue against it.
If he is prepared (more than any other people who asks questions) he cannot be defeated.
There will be people who believe him through his convincing powers and there will be others.

Do you think the Neth FM host and Mr Ariyasena was convinced at the end of the show going by answer Thero gave ?

There itself is a controversy now and more attention.



4) I noted the fact he explained things to you where others could not and you were taken by his knowledge and convincing powers due to that.

Though am not sure what your real goal of posting the original clip was ( as we all know he is controversial and many do not like him for his unorthodox behaviour ) I will presume you posted it knowing well there will still skeptics of his preachings and people will not have your personal experience with him.

But I did notice when I first commented on this thread there were less than 200 views. Now over a 1000.
Mainly the bigger discussions were generated due to controversy of Dane/eating meat.

Why did I bring this up?
When controversies are there there is more interest/attention.
Thero knows it and indirectly admits it in his speeches.
He also encourages it , likes it and apparently plans it intentionally also ( get people to scold you example + photo issue if my memory is right)

His reason to do so is to train/advance ones mind.
Now unless you have attained marga pala state ( if there is someone who has, he/she may not come out in public) ,
or have read all the major scripture of buddhism ( the complete tripitaka also, but then again that too is controversial as the translation can have altered meaning) how can one deny it ?

Let me put in a simpler example.

A lawyer can win a case by simply arguing for something that cannot be proven otherwise ( by the written law or people present.) Convincing the judge/jury depends on his skills of oration or the research he does to make it strong case so no one can oppose.

Does it always mean he/she is correct?

sashimaal wrote:Answers to below (as i understand) :

C.

1. Yes

2. Maybe, but no real proof about the latter part of the question

3. Once i asked a separate person who does Pranic healing about the Thero and to see whether He has attained any special level when it comes to Chakra (Chakra awadi kireema). That is not directly related to Maarga pala but will be some indication as to whether He is a fake or not. That person after checking confirmed that Pitiduwe Thero has indeed got to a certain special level when it comes to Chakra beyond a normal person. Any other person who has access to Pranic healing Teachers can also check whether what i am saying is correct. Just for information, Dalai Lama's level of Chakra measurement he gave was far above Pitiduwe Thero.

I do not know how to understand such a person (an Arahath). However, upto now no other person could also prove that he has not either (not that it means it is therefore correct). I have found that his teachings are right - but needs to understand He says certain things for certain people and different things to some other people based on their level of spiritual maturity (ex: positive thinking related matters will not be said in the same way for people with a higher level of understanding/for mentally strong ppl - as it does fool one's own mind).


4. Attention matter - i also have that same doubt. I have heard this question asked from him as well - even Neth FM people asked it. My thoughts are similar.


5. Because they have let go "Mamathwaya"

6. That needs lengthy discussion and is true. However all details were not discussed in that clip. That is linked to living in the present. Planning is one thing, expecting it to happen the way we planned is another. I will put a video on that when i find. Christianity also says the same thing.

7. If we "assume" that he has attained Arahath pala, still Vasana-guna will be there (which have come with his Samsara). So certain words and behavior could still remain even at his higher state. There are certain Rahath who have used "bad language" according to the scriptures..but their "intention" is not as what we think or how lays such as us would say/do.


D.
If he came to us...looking at the ground walking slowly and quietly without slippers even ...and sat on a small chair or on floor and said things very gently and mildly looking at the floor and kept very quiet...

MOST WOULD HAVE SAID "HE DEFINITELY HAS ATTAINED SOME SORT OF SPIRITUAL LEVEL ! "



Anyway, as i said, I do not know whether he has attained Sovan even. I do not know how to check that. I have heard his teachings. When i have questions on them i write down and ask when i meet. I have not come across a better teacher of Buddhism - and i have listened to a lot.

Most importantly, i don't blindly believe him or his teachings (Kalama Suthra clearly says - Ma Samano no garu thi )

slstock wrote:

1) He is learned. He is well read. He knows stuff. I am sure he has experimented some things too.

2) But has he overlearned or has he taken his learning to twist and add his own extremist flavor ?

3) Has he attained Rahath or any of the "state" to that matter. I saw in newspaper he claimed he has attained
( to be clarified) Now a question will arise, does his behavior style display anyone who has attained a state of calmness and wisdom  of person who has attained a state.

4) If someone has attained a state or has great wisdom , why does he want this much attention in different ways?

Example : He says one time "kiyala banum assaganna" ( get your self scolded).

okay maybe he is giving advice to others.
But why is he is trying to do that himself still if he has attained a state.

Take the a) the photo issue b) the recent Dane issue, as example.

I presume if he was okay to consume meat and if the upasaka upasikawo is presenting he can do it
in quiteness. But there was so much publicity on it. Why is so am not sure?


5) "Araya margayata pathkala uthumek widawata path karanna bae" .

Well I agree he has great oratory skills to argue and convince so at his monestray everyone who comes , come
willingly so he can convince.

6) He also says don't expect and just let thing happen. ( bus station example) . Do not schedule.

But to me he has expected and scheduled/planned certain events. ( Like the Dane and he was expecting people will
scold him ) He was prepared to justify the eating of meat by showing Buddha never said not to ( except 10 kinds of meat) . This exemplifies my point of number 5) also.


7) He often states words "little pissu" & "amuthu". He also says what he says is not written anywhere.
Okay. But ... there is big but there itself ( think deep)

I admit , being unorthodox is no reason to sideline anyone or dismiss what he says. I am myself very unorthodox and outspoken. So I understand the priest maybe of same character . There is certainly some truth in some of the things he states. But is it a mixture?




D)
   
Let me ask You one question ( Sashi)  You don't have to answer me if you don't want to.

Do you see in him the signs or think he has attained Arahath?

If yes, then I am sure he will be able to convince you further.  So I will stop.  
If No, then the premise to believe  his ways  and what he says is broken.   So I will stop.



E)  I know that   saying   and convincing   are 2 different things.

  What my stand  on this :
  I take certain things he says as truth (as it make sense specially on a  social context)  and  I will discard the rest.
  Btw, what I  just said  , take what makes sense and discard the rest )also  falls under a strong premise of  Buddhism

sashimaal wrote:Other than the controversial topic of eating meat, i can answer any question you have on what was discussed in the Neth FM discussion.

slstock wrote:Yes questions were asked  and  answers were given.
 
The very last sentence he said in  the  program probably is more controversial than the meat eating  ( along with many other things )
 

Thank You ET ,Serene and Pls read my initial post as i driven below.
Hope U will response me Soon..

chutiputha wrote:

පොඩි ප්‍රශ්න කිහිපයක් ?

ඔබ කඩේට ගිහින් මස් ඉල්ලනවා,ඒ කඩේ මස් නැ,
මේ වගේ ගොඩක් දෙනෙක් ඒ කඩෙන් මස් ඉල්ලනවා,එත් එතන නැ,
කඩේ මුදලාලි කල්පනා කරනවා,කුකුලන්,උරන්,ගවයන් ටිකක් ගේන්න.
ඔන්න අයෙත් මිනිස්සු මස් ඉල්ලද්දී එයට කැමති මසක් දෙන්න කඩේ මුදලාලි ලග සත්තු ඉන්නවා.
කුකුල් මස් ඉල්ලුවම කුකුළා මරනවා,හරකා ඉල්ලුවම හරකා මරනවා,උරා ඉල්ලුවම උරා මරනවා,
ඉල්ලුවේ කිලෝවයි,නමුත් කිලෝ දෙකක් තියෙන නිසා,ඉතුරු කිලෝව ශීතකරණයේ දානවා..ඔන්න දැන් වැඩේ යනවා,ඉල්ලුමට අනුව සැපයුම.මස් කන්න තියෙන ආසාවට,ආසාව අවශ්‍යතාවය වෙනවා(අසාවන් අඩු කරන්න කියල බුද්ධාගමේ තියෙනවා නේද?සීලය-ප්‍රජ්ජ්නාවෙන් සිත කය වචනය සංවර කිරීම),ඔන්න අවස්‍යතවයට අනුව ඉල්ලුම් කරනවා,ඔන්න ඉතින් මුදලාලි බඩු දෙනවා...

දැන් මට කියන්න බලන්න ඉල්ලුමක් නැත්තම අර සත්තු ටික මැරෙනවද?
කාටවත් හිරිහැරයක් කරදරයක් නැතුව ජිවත් වෙන්න ඉගැන්නුවේ මගේ දෙමුපියෝ..

පොඩ්ඩක් පිහියක් බෙල්ලට තියල කපාගෙන බලන්න,කොච්චර නම් සනීපද කියලා,
අනේ මොහොතකටවත් හිතුවද අර සතාට කොච්චර අමාරුද කියලා..

ඔබ මස් නොඉල්ලුවනම් උව මරනවද,එසේම ඔබ සියලු දෙනාම මස් නොඉල්ලුව නම් එටන ඉල්ලුමක් නැ,ඉල්ලුමක් නැති තැන සැපයුමක් නැ.

පසුව ලියමි.
එක් අයෙක් හරි ඉන්නවා නම් තමන්ට මස් කන්න ඕන නිසා,තමන් විසින්ම සත්ව මරල ගෙදර උයලා කන කෙනෙක් මම ඔහු ගැන ආඩම්බර වෙමි,මොකද තමන්ගේ ආසාවට ඒ සතා මැරීමේ පව ටව කෙනෙක් පිට නොතමු හෙයිනි,බළලුන් ලවා කොස් අට බාවන අයට වඩා කොන්ද ඍජු අය ඇතයි මා සිතමි.

මා ගැන පෞද්ගලිකව දන්නා අය මේ ෆෝරමය තුල සිටිනවා,මගේ දිවිපෙවෙත සහ කෑම බිම ගැන ඔවුන් හොදින් දන්නවා.සැපයුම අති මහත් උවත් මා එසේ නොගන්නේ ඒ ගැන ආසාවක් නැති කමත්,ඉල්ලුම වැඩි කිරීමට අකමැති නිසා බවත් පැහැදිලි සිතින් එක්සිත්ව,එක්සත්ව ප්‍රකාශ කරමි.

සිංහල භාෂාවෙන්(අකුරු සිංහල උනත් ඉංග්‍රීසි අකුරු උනාට කම් නැත) අදහස් ප්‍රකාශ කරන ලෙස කාරුණිකව දන්වමි.

ඔබට තෙරුවන් සරණයි..

While we discuss issues about the Thero, and before discussing about the Path, let's listen to a sermon that explains Maha Mangala Suthraya - a Suthra we all have heard and some say daily.

You will learn a lot !